Response to "Letter from a Protestant to a Catholic Friend" (Part 2)

[Names Redacted]

My Catholic friend originally forwarded me the letter from his Protestant friend and asked for my opinion. This is my response to my Catholic friend:

[To Anonymous Catholic] –

I know you are well versed on all of these issues and capable of answering each one on your own.  I’m grateful that you wanted my perspective as a former Protestant Minister. I think I can give you some unique insight. I totally understand where your friend is coming from.  I used to have all of the same objections. As a former Evangelical, and 4 ½ point Calvinist, the doctrine of Sola Scriptura (The Bible and Bible Alone) was the foundation of my beliefs. Don’t take it personal when he says such offensive things about the Catholic Church. I assume that he loves Jesus and believes that the Catholic Church is idolatrous. He probably believes he is trying to deliver you from false teaching and into a real "relationship” with Jesus Christ. He probably doesn’t realize or understand that you have a very strong personal relationship with Jesus, and love Him more than anything on earth.  All that being said, I’d like to address each one of the points that he raised. It will be impossible to cover all the points to exhaustion in an email. It would take volumes of books. But I think it’s important to touch on each one. Please be patient with the long email. It will be worth it!

Q: I think I understand that the Roman Catholic Church believes that it and/or the pope can determine doctrine? 
 

A: First, I’m not sure exactly what he means by “determine doctrine”.  The dictionary defines “doctrine” as “a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a church, political party, or other group:” Then Yes, of course the Church can define what it believes. In addition, Jesus himself said in Matthew 16:19, ^“I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

It’s important to note that the Catholic Church teaches that NOTHING can be ‘added’ to Scripture. Public revelation ceased with the death of the last Apostle, John (Catechism of the Catholic Church 66–67, 73).

Q: That scripture alone is not the only way God has communicated with us? Is that right?
 

A: That is correct. The Scripture itself teaches that it is not the only way God has communicated with us. Jesus himself was incarnate in the flesh to speak to us and teach us (John 1 – Jesus is The Word). Also John 1:14 says, “For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.” As far as we know, Jesus never wrote anything down. Hebrews 1:1 says, “Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son,”  I think this verse is pretty self explanatory, but just to avoid confusion, let’s look at what the Greek says. The Greek word for SPOKE and SPOKEN in this verse is “Laleo”, which means “to SPEAK”. The Greek word for PROPHETS here is “prohetes”, which means, “one who proclaims inspired utterances on behalf of God.”

Q: [To Anonymous Catholic], I question this with all my heart……2 Timothy 3:16 says that "all scripture is Breathed out by God and profitable for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete for every good work." …..If scripture is directly from God, how would the church better it, further it, or complete it?....Shouldn't we go to the "God breathed" word before any man's?

A: (I used to believe exactly the same thing. I even used some of these verses to try to argue my point).  First, and most importantly, the Catholic Church agrees, all Scripture is God breathed and without error in its original form. But the point he is attempting to make here is an argument for “Scripture Alone”. It’s really just a misunderstanding of Scripture and Church history that leads to this belief.  The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura is not in the Bible. In fact, it totally contradicts what the Bible teaches. The concept of “Scripture Alone” did not exist in the Early Church. It is a Protestant tradition that began approximately 500 years ago during the Protestant Reformation. I would ask your friend what he believes is his strongest argument for this tradition.

Let’s address his questions; First, The Church does not try to “better scripture”. The Church is here to protect it. In fact, that is one of the reasons Jesus established a Church, to protect His children from error, from misinterpreting Scripture, His teaching, and the teaching of the Apostles. That’s why one of the prominent themes Paul wrote about in the Pastoral Epistles was protecting the believers from false teaching.

I would ask your friend what he believes came first, the Bible or The Church?
 

Let’s take a look at the verses he listed and see what they really say. 2 Timothy 3:16 says absolutely nothing about using Scripture “alone”. It just says that Scripture is God breathed and is “profitable”. It makes no reference to using it alone as the sole source of instruction. The Catholic Church teaches that Scripture is without error. If Paul were to say here that Scripture alone is to be used as the sole rule of faith, he would be totally contradicting himself, which we know is not possible. He says in 2 Thessalonians 2:15, “So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.”

In fact, a closer look at the text in the original Greek and in context, actually reveals that Paul is not referring to Scripture alone. The Greek word for SCRIPTURE in this verse is “graphe” which means, “writing, drawing or letter; that which is written: ‘writing’.”  Just three sentences later in 4:2 Paul charges Timothy to, “preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.” The Greek word here for WORD is “Logos” which means, “a communication whereby the mind finds expression, word of utterance, chiefly oral; spoken word, also written word”. And of course preaching is done orally. If Paul wanted to express the concept of Scripture “alone”, he could have easily told Timothy to “preach the GRAPHE, not preach the LOGOS”, a word he just used a few sentences earlier. Also, he wouldn’t have instructed believers in his other letters to hold to the teachings and traditions they had been taught by the Apostles. (1 Corinthians 11:1-2, 2 Thessalonians 2:15, 3:6, 3:10, 2 Timothy 2:2, Romans 10:17, 1 Peter 1:25, etc). In fact, even the Gospels themselves are “Oral Tradition” that has been written down (Luke 1:1-4).

Q: 2 Timothy 3:16 proclaims the Bible to be good for all life's problems and questions.  What need is there for a mediator between us and God besides Jesus?  It states Gods word is good for teaching, that we can be complete for all righteousness.  No mention of a pope.  

(I’m going to answer part of this question here since it is related re: 2 Timothy 3:16. I will answer the Pope portion separately.)

A:  There is A LOT in this one question. But let’s look at what your friend is saying. He says that this verse means that Scripture is all we need to be “complete”. Remember, Scripture cannot contradict itself. This verse says that “the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.” Well James 1:5 says, “And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.” So James says “steadfastness/endurance” makes you complete, lacking in nothing. So which is it, Scripture or Endurance that makes us complete?? Sometimes the English language causes unnecessary problems. Let’s look at the Greek. The Greek word for COMPLETE in 2 Timothy 3:17 is “Artios” which means “pertaining to being qualified to perform some function—‘qualified, proficient.”. The Greek word for COMPLETE in James 1:5 is “holokleros” which means, “to being complete and meeting all expectations, with integrity, whole, complete, undamaged, intact, blameless” James even adds the word PERFECT, “teleios” in Greek, which means “to meeting the highest standard; whole, without blemish”. So while the Bible says in Timothy that Scripture will make you “qualified and proficient”, it says in James that Endurance will make you “Perfect, complete, without blemish”; much stronger words. This is far from saying Scripture alone is what makes you complete. In addition, Paul is referring to the “Old Testament Scriptures” here. The New Testament did not exist yet. If the Old Testament Scripture were all we needed to be complete, then why do we need the New Testament? It just doesn’t make sense.

Also, just to touch briefly on the “One Mediator” topic. (Way too extensive to go into here and off topic of the Bible Alone.) As you know, the Church teaches “there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,” 1 Timothy 2:5. We are “co-mediators” along with Christ THROUGH HIS mediation. The Scriptures command us to “pray” (mediate) for one another”, and Paul, the Apostles, and all the believers are shown in Scripture to be praying (mediating) for one another.

What need is there for a mediator? Well, what happens when two people disagree on what the Scripture says? Who determines who is right? As we see in Acts 15 at The Council of Jerusalem, there were people teaching opposing views. It got so bad that Paul and Barnabas could not agree. So they had to bring it to the Elders of The Church to make an authoritative ruling. “And when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question.” Acts 15:2 In Matthew 18:15-19 Jesus himself gives instructions on what to do with a dispute, He tells them to bring it to THE CHURCH to mediate; “If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the Church; and if he refuses to listen even to the Church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.” Then in verse 18 Jesus says that the Church’s meditative decision is authoritative and is “bound” in heaven, “ Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
 

Q:  Acts 17:11 says "The Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true".  ….Luke calls the Jews "noble" who searched the Scriptures every day for themselves.

A: Again, this verse says nothing about Scripture “alone” as the sole rule of faith. The Beroean Jews were commended for “receiving the message with great eagerness” and “examined the Scriptures every day”. They should be commended. In fact, that’s exactly what the Catholic Church exhorts us to do. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says in Paragraph 133, “The Church forcefully and specifically exhorts all the Christian faithful … to learn ‘the surpassing knowledge of Jesus Christ,’ by frequent reading of the divine Scriptures. ‘Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ.”

The Ignatius Study Bible Commentary states it clearly, “The Beroeans measured the claims of the gospel against the standard of OT revelation and found them to be in agreement. It is only logical that Jews would test the messianic message of the gospel by searching the messianic prophecies of the OT.”

I will answer the following question next to each verse his listed. But none of these verses suggest the concept of Scripture “alone”. I think the verses he referenced actual prove the case AGAINST the Scripture Alone tradition. Of course reading the Scripture is beneficial, it is God’s inerrant Word! As Paul tells us in 2 Thessalonians 2:15 and several other times in his writings, along with the other authors of Scripture, God’s Word is not just written, it is spoken; “So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.”

Q: Other verses that encourage individuals to study Gods word:

2 Timothy 2:15; “rightly handling the word of truth.”  LOGOS = Spoken and Written; ALL teaching.

Matthew 4:4; Jesus says, “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’ ” Jesus actually uses the Greek word “rhema” here for WORD, which means “that which is said, saying, statement, speech”

Joshua 1:8; “This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it.” – Absolutely!!! But does it say we are to do ONLY what is written in the Law? Or did the Jews actually do more and have additional teachings??

      Psalm 119:8; “I will keep your statutes;” – This says nothing about Scripture alone.

Romans 15:4; “For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.” – Referring again to the Old Testament. One of its purposes was for instruction and to give us hope. Is this the ONLY purpose of Scripture? Notice that this verse also says “Endurance” which is “Works”.

Psalm 119:105; “Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path.”- The Hebrew word here for WORD is “dabar” which means “speech, spoken word”

2 Timothy 2:7; “Think over what I say”  SAY (LEGO from LOGOS) = Spoken Word, Speech

2 Timothy 4:13; “bring the cloak that I left with Carpus at Troas, also the books, and above all the parchments.” – Paul tells Timothy to bring his Cloak, Books, and Parchments. Is Paul suggesting that we need to wear a Cloak when we read the Scriptures?? Of course not.

And Peter himself:

 2 Peter 1-5; “For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge.” – Notice that knowledge is just a “supplement” not the ONLY thing.

 1 Peter 3:15; “ but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,” – One of my favorite verses! – I don’t see how this is related to Scripture Alone.

Q: First off, to call a mere man "holy father" is ridiculous and heretical.  Only Jesus was perfect. 

A: HOLY is from the Scripture. The Greek word is “hagios” which means“dedicated to God, set apart” it’s also translated “saints” Paul calls us holy ones/saints (hagios) in 1 Corinthians 1:2 and in pretty much every letter he writes. He calls himself a holy one/saint (hagios) in Ephesians 3:8, “To me, though I am the very least of all the saints,…” and he also calls himself FATHER in 1 Corinthians 4:15, “For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.” Is Paul a heretic?? Is Jesus ridiculous when He himself commands us to be “holy/perfect” in Matthew 5:48, “You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

Q: These prophets wrote down Gods word as did the apostles in the first century.  The canon is closed and it does not change.  There is no mention of a pope to continue clarifying Gods word.

A: That is correct. As I mentioned earlier The Church teaches that “Public revelation ceased with the death of the last Apostle, John (Catechism of the Catholic Church 66–67, 73).” The Catholic Church determined which books were to be included in the Canon of Scripture (table of contents of the Bible) in 393-419 AD at The Councils of Hippo and Carthage. Protestants actually removed seven books from the Bible in the 1500’s, and most Protestant Bibles today are still missing those Books. So if Protestants want to follow a tradition of Sola Scriptura, it’s going to be pretty difficult if they don’t have all of the Scriptures.

Also, I would ask your friend where in the Bible it says the Canon of Scripture is “closed” and what the Canon is? That is not in the Bible.

The Prophets and Apostles did write down God’s Word, but they didn’t write down everything. As I have mentioned above. For example, John says in John 21:25, “But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.” And in John 20:30 he says, “Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;”

The Pope issue is going to be extremely lengthy. I know you would love to share all of it with him. I would recommend you start with just the things above, mainly the Sola Scriptura issue. Once you have gotten past that, then move on to another issue. One thing at a time. But to touch briefly on the Pope point, I referenced above the Scriptures that show the Church, and Peter (the 1^st Pope) clarifying God’s Word (Acts 15), and Matthew 18:15-20 which clearly show the Church clarifying and definitively declaring the teaching of God. In Matthew 16:19 Jesus clearly gives Peter, and ONLY Peter, the “Keys to The Kingdom”; “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven,§ and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” This is a direct allusion to the Old Testament Davidic Kingdom in Isaiah 22:22. The “Keys to The Kingdom” were given to the Prime Minister by the King, which gave him alone the authority to declare things in the Name of the King. Any Jew in Jesus’ time would have known exactly what Jesus was talking about and doing when He gave Peter The Keys.“And I will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David; he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.” Isaiah 22:22

I want to address one last thing. His last statement was strictly an opinion, a severely erroneous one. Here’s what he said:
 

“Bottom line for me is this.  The Roman Catholic Church has inexcusably replaced the Pharisees and Judaism with a works based theology that is unbiblical.  By works based, I mean things like going to confession, having sayings that we repeat like "Hail Marys", mindless chants, prayer to Mary, etc.  these are man made ideas not from scripture that will somehow get us close to God. “

A: First, there is nothing that he has listed that is “unbiblical”. I would challenge him to show you in the Bible where these things are “unbiblical”. First, he has a total misunderstanding of what the Church actually teaches. The Catholic Church teaches what the Scripture teaches, that we “have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.” But that we have to “cooperate” with God’s grace. The entire Scriptures are filled with this charge. James 2:24 says, “You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.”

Jesus Christ established a Church and promised that “the Gates of Hades shall not prevail against it”. He established ONE Church, not 40,000+ different churches. That Church is the Catholic Church. That is just a fact of history. The Protestant Church didn’t even come into existence until 15 centuries later. Jesus wants the Church to be ONE. “And now I am no more in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.” John 17:11 “that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.” John 17:21

If he has a problem with Confession, it’s just because he doesn’t fully understand the Scriptures. Jesus himself gave the Apostles the power to forgive sins. It was the VERY FIRST THING HE DID after He rose from the dead and breathed on them the Holy Spirit. John 20:22-23 says, “And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”; 1 John 1:9 says, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”; James 5:14-16 says, “Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.  And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.  Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed…”

The Catholic Church does not support “mindless chants”. In fact, any “vain” prayer is useless and possibly a grave sin.

These are not “man made ideas not from Scripture that will somehow get us close to God”. The “Hail Mary” is directly from Scripture. It is a direct quote of the Angel Gabriel’s proclamation in Luke 1:28, “And he came to her and said, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!” The Bible says in James 4:8, “Draw near to God and he will draw near to you..”, Ephesians 6:18, “ Pray at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints,” I could go on and on….

I find it interesting that he says that the Catholic Church follows all these “man made” things, and the whole foundation of the Protestant Doctrine is “man made”. Sola Scriptura is found nowhere in the Bible. As I mentioned earlier, that tradition was made by man during the Protestant Reformation about 500 years ago. For the first 1500 years of the Church it did not exist.

The Bible says that The Church itself is the “pillar and foundation of Truth” 1 Timothy 3:15, “if I delay, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, a pillar and buttress of the truth.” Interesting that it does not say “the Bible” is the pillar and buttress of Truth.

I know this is a lot, but he asked some questions that needed exegesis. It might be best for you to just forward him this email. I hope he will understand our hearts. It’s difficult to express these issues in writing without risking being misunderstood. I write this in love. Hopefully with gentleness and respect. I hope my perspective is helpful.

I would ask your friend two questions;

1. By what authority did Martin Luther start a new church (the Protestant Church) after being ejected from the Church that Jesus established? (Look at Jesus’ words in Matthew 18:17-18)

2. By what authority did the Protestants remove seven Books from the Bible?

God Bless You my Brother!